Essan,
I did post something and changed my mind.
The Finger
JoinedPosts by The Finger
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
When I was about 9/10 I was witnessing to the boy who sat in front of me at school and the conversation went to discussing the "sign." I didn't have my bible with me but lunchtimes I went home. When I got home I read Matt. 24. and felt let down. It didn't read that the composite sign was the sign of Christ's presence. So I got the WT's out and soon found the explanation, "wholly unscriptural" as you said. I tried to avoid the boy when I got back to school and was successful. He was never going to get the explanation was he.
In 1994 the WT took time to explain the word "then" and moved the sign of verse 30 forward. Why do you think that they could not see what the word "Then" meant prior to this?
Some of those who claim to be of the annointed class seem to have seen a few "signs" and "presences" I think in your ancestry of this class you trace it back in a previous post to the Millarites, remembered for the Great Disappointment. Is any wonder that people tire of hearing these explanations of the "sign" the "generation" etc. and lose faith.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog, you said
"You are making no sense, and I was focusing on the words you were using here in describing "the sign of the Son of man" in trying to make a connection between "the sign of the Son of man" and what Daniel saw in his vision as is recorded at Daniel 7:13, 14, so I decided to research which issue in 1966 did the Watchtower provide this wholly unscriptural viewpoint and I found the article "The Sign of the Sign of Man" [w66 1/15, pp. 37-40]. This is the reason that "you guys," who have left God's organization and are still holding on to these older magazines and books, and rely upon what they say thinking that the information contained in them is static, when later on, in fact, adjustments have been made to some of what these older publications contain."
This wholly unscriptural viewpoint can also be found in the Insight book pg. 942. Just out of interest.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
In Vines Expository Dictionary under the word Coming (noun) is the word parousia, which to me suggests they are the almost the same word and is contrast with the word absence, (like the train that is absent from the station) an example is given of Phil.2:12. 2Pet. 1:16 uses the word with reference to the transfiguration. It goes on to describe when used of the return of Christ as being from that moment until his revelation and manifestation to the world.
I'm sorry but I still fail to see and I think if I were on the platform at the train station and the train was absent from the platform at the time it was due and I turned to my fellow commuters and stated "You'll see the train soon, at least we have the invisible presence" I think they would think I'm potty or would laugh.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog, Thank you for explaining your view of Jesus being present or absent. As you know what is truth today may not be tomorrow. However Jesus is the truth and my faith is in him.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
I maybe wrong but to illustrate my view of the presence is like this,
I am waiting on the underground station in London. After a while there is a breeze on the platform I know the train is coming. The train arrives it has come and on it at the front is the identification of where it is going, it is the train i've been waiting for. It is now present.
With Christ the identification is in verse 30 and sign prior to that is of his coming not his presence.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
I'm still not totally clear on this.
This vacation you went on and then came back from and could have been in work but weren't and they thought you would be so you were actually present in a "parousia."
Or
Like if when the elder who visits me invites me to the hall like he did a few weeks ago and i said when i come back from my hols. and he's waiting outside to greet me and i'm watching TV istead, go next week I am actually present it's my invisible presence my "parousia" and my coming is next week. (If i'm present like this do they count me)
Am I getting this?
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
lol!
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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-
The Finger
Djeggnog,
Without rummaging thru publications etc. and working from memory which isn't that good this is how I understood Christ's presence as a Witness before the change in 1993/4
The Matthew account shows it as a three part question one part being "... what will be the sign of your presence..." The word "sign" I believe came from the word "semion" or some such greek word and that would be "nes" in the Hebrew (which I think I'm right in saying that some think Matthew may have been written in first.) This word, means upright pole ect. and includes a gathering aspect. The standard that was raised by armies etc. effectively.
An example of this is the following from the Cambridge encyclopedia under Stuart with regard to the last Jacobite rebellion " He landed with seven followers at Eriskay in the Hebrides (July 1745) and raised his fathers standard (sign) The clans men flocked to him, Edinburgh surrendered and he kept court at Holyrood")
This part of Matthew 24:3 was applied to Matthew 24:30. and you can see why. When the "sign of the Son of Man" appears there is a gathering. The "sign" in the 1966 WT showed it to be Christ coming in before God as in Daniel as this tied in with the portion of the verse "See the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with great power and glory"
The composite sign was not the sign of either verse 3 or verse 30 but rather a visible result of sign of the son of man. Christ having recieved power was the birth of his kingly rule and people were "gathered" to it by submiting to his rule and putting the Kingdom first. You could be gathered to this sign whereas you cannot be gathered to the composite sign and so it is not the sign of Christ's presence. If you do not have the sign, you do not have the presence.
The other word presence, parousia, I believe meant not just a coming but a visit by a King. To have any visit you have to come or arrive first. So if we have an invisible parousia he must have come or arrived and therefore as we now have it the verses Matthew 24:30-31 are not the 2nd coming but a 3rd.